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Mental illness - Connection?

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Carson Collins
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Carson Collins » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:54 pm

If the "real link" is between "personality types" and creativity, then could someone please explain exactly which "personality type" equals creativity?

I ask this question because I am both an artist and a student of Psychology, as well as a (former) practicing Psychiatrist.

In addition, I have studied many of the more esoteric ways of measuring personality, including the Enneagram. I have also been diagnosed by other so-called experts with Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCD) and Major Depressive Disorder, and I have a wide acquaintance among other artists over a 30-year+ span, many if not most would have been considered outside the norm in some parameter or other of how we attempt to measure such things as "personality".

Nevertheless, I fail to perceive any single "personality type" that is common to all, or even most, artists.

Please enlighten me as to this fascinating hypothesis of "personality type". :idea: :?:
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Gary Dee
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Gary Dee » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:49 pm

Carson Collins wrote:If the "real link" is between "personality types" and creativity, then could someone please explain exactly which "personality type" equals creativity?

Carson, this was on a page back so I'm assuming you might not have read it.

I'm sure you are familiar with the MMPI, Carson. I tried to answer the question as it pertained to "mental illness" vs. "creativity" using test results of the MMPI as an example........below:

Gary Dee wrote:
BogStandad wrote:If there is a "connection between mental illness and creativity" as some people seem to be implying, can they please try to explain what that connection is?

I'll try.
The most trusted "personality inventory" test created in 1946 and revised many times since is called the MMPI. It stands for the Minnesota Multiphastic Personality Inventory. There have been over 10,000 books written about the test and it is the most accepted and utilized test results about one's personality in most countries around the world. It is used by many if not most large corporations for hiring and promotional considerations (I have taken the MMPI on two occasions involving employment) and also as a tool for psychologists in working with their clients. It is also used by the Colorado Department of Corrections where part of my job as a psychotherapist and case manager was to interpret the results to my clients as part of determining treatment, for if people are aware of their 'personality traits' it is easier to deal with their 'problems' effectively.

One of the 'scales' on the test ( one of 6 if I remember the # correctly - the results of the test are presented on a graph) relates to schizophrenia. The higher a person scores on this scale, the more predisposed they are to "abstract" thinking (thinking 'outside' the box) which also relates to "creativity". Of course it doesn't mean one is "schizophrenic" unless they are totally off the chart, but it has found to be a reliable assessment of a part of one's personality.

This, I believe, is wherein the connection lies.

Hope that helps.


I think I was just simply wasting my time, so I am bowing out of this discussion.
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Carson Collins
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Carson Collins » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:32 pm

Scale 8: Schizophrenia (Sc) - This scale was originally developed to identify patients diagnosed as schizophrenic. All 78 items in the original scale have been maintained in the MMPI-2. The items in this scale assess a wide variety of content areas, including bizarre thought processes and peculiar perceptions, social alienation, poor familial relationships, difficulties in concentration and impulse control, lack of deep interests, disturbing questions of self-worth and self-identity, and sexual difficulties. Misinterpretations of reality, delusions, and hallucinations may be present. Ambivalent or constricted emotional responsiveness is common. Behavior may be withdrawn, aggressive, or bizarre. Scale 8 is probably the single most difficult scale to interpret in isolation because of the variety of factors that can result in an elevated score. Scores on this scale are related to age and to race. Adolescents and college students often obtain T-scores in a range of 50 to 60, perhaps reflecting the turmoil associated with that period in life. Black subjects, particularly males, tend to score higher than white subjects, perhaps suggesting the alienation and social estrangement felt by many blacks.


So, you're saying that all artists score high on Scale 8? I'm not at all sure that this is true. In fact, I very much doubt that it is. An essential quality for any artist is the ability to actually make something that is physically real. All of the schizophrenics that I have known just talked about bizarre stuff. They never actually made anything. They seemed to be unable to do so.
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Gary Dee
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Gary Dee » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:09 am

Carson Collins wrote:So, you're saying that all artists score high on Scale 8?

No, I didn't say that at all! And I wasn't referring to the MMPI-2.
Our work did not involve computer assistance in interpretation and we used case files (which included all investigations back to childhood) as background information.

I simply tried to provide a possible explanation of a link to what so many are asking in this thread: mental illness & creativity.
As you know, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (for example) is not the same as Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. They are both treated quite differently since one is a mental disorder and the other a personality disorder. The MMPI (not -2) is not used for diagnosing mental disorders (although it may be one step), but rather for learning more about personalities.

As I said, there have been over 10K books written about the MMPI and its revisions since its first publication ......so it doesn't appear we are on the same page.
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freakyfingers
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby freakyfingers » Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:59 am

I always liked the "everyones crazy but me " lol. I always thought ev eryone was torrmented or tortured souls, some admit it some dont. Some greatly some just a little, life is what it is, one strange trip. If your lucky ya make it to the end LOL :lol:
o I finally got a job 8)
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BogStandad
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby BogStandad » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:37 am

freakyfingers wrote:I always liked the "everyones crazy but me " lol. I always thought ev eryone was torrmented or tortured souls, some admit it some dont. Some greatly some just a little, life is what it is, one strange trip. If your lucky ya make it to the end LOL :lol:
o I finally got a job 8)


I disagree completely and I would show you if I could get this straight jacket off, ha, ha, lol.

Hope the job goes well and I am happy for you, good luck.

BogStandad.
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MiChelleAngella
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby MiChelleAngella » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:31 am

freakyfingers wrote:I always liked the "everyones crazy but me " lol. I always thought ev eryone was torrmented or tortured souls, some admit it some dont. Some greatly some just a little, life is what it is, one strange trip. If your lucky ya make it to the end LOL :lol:
o I finally got a job 8)


haha I like the quote:
"Crazy people don't know they are crazy, I know I am crazy therefore I am not crazy.."
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Clide Course
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Clide Course » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:59 pm

"I disagree completely and I would show you if I could get this straight jacket off, ha, ha, lol.

Hope the job goes well and I am happy for you, good luck.

BogStandad"

I type with my feet...
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BogStandad
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby BogStandad » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:55 pm

I can't get my boots off and I new I should have got an assistant before I tried this trick.
My brothers in the next bedroom but he's deaf, can't hear, can't get out of the bed the door is shut and I knew I shouldn't have trusted him. My phones in my pocket so I can't even tell that what to do, I am flumuxed. I will just have to wait till my mum comes off holiday and I have got Paul on loop so I have got something to watch, I am glad it wasn't Zeitgeist.
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Carson Collins
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Carson Collins » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:32 am

@ Wingo: I apologize if I misunderstood you, this is an interesting discussion and I was just trying to pin down the elusive relationship between artistry and mental health. I mean, if being an artist is a personality disorder, then which one is it? I meant no offense.

It's probably a meaningless question in the first place, but it would seem that a lot of folks do think that creativity is somehow connected to mental illness and I just don't think that this is true in any literal sense, my remarks about OCD notwithstanding. Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder may be a factor in my case, but I don't think that's true about all artists.
Last edited by Carson Collins on Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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