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Mental illness - Connection?

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cjeje10
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby cjeje10 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:06 am

I have often thought about this a lot. To say that we are what eat is a good example. paint and glue is the same as lsd or weed or other chemical drugs used so freely today that it is scarey. I cant say that im not mentally ill or that i am but believe the creative centre of the brain works better when we sleep. an artist who can tap this place when they are awake is using parts of the brain that should be closed. to tranfer images and dreams into real things in a creative way is amazing. to try and underastand this would take more of my life than i have to live so it is better to accept that certain people who cannot otherwise communicate with the outside world use art as a way( like myself), to show and tell others what we really feel inside. If you can translate this then the understanding of the artist is there to see. it is also true that this does not apply to everyone. some people have this ability without ever suffering, and some people have to suffer to find this place. i work in jeje's place and find that when i am there the only things that are important to me are the transferal of my feelings into drawings, writings or photo's, in this way i can share myself with others without actually saying what i feel. this is definately a cop out but a very good tool to have. as for the ear chopping, we all do strange things when in love. i know i have but this doesn't mean we are mentally ill. :!:
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Carson Collins
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Carson Collins » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:14 pm

...paint and glue is the same as lsd or weed or other chemical drugs...
- cjeje10


As a medical doctor with a degree in organic chemistry, I feel obliged to caution readers that whoever wrote this is not only completely ignorant but also dangerously misinformed about the subject being discussed.
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BogStandad
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby BogStandad » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:43 pm

Carson Collins wrote:
...paint and glue is the same as lsd or weed or other chemical drugs...
- cjeje10


As a medical doctor with a degree in organic chemistry, I feel obliged to caution readers that whoever wrote this is not only completely ignorant but also dangerously misinformed about the subject being discussed.


Having worked as an industrial paint technician with the responsibly for the health and safety of the public and workforce, which is a big responsibility I will agree 100%.

Just in case people think that led pencils are made of led, they are made from graphite mostly, with some modern pencils being graphite impregnated plastic. Led pencils have not existed for 200 years if they ever existed at all, perhaps during the Roman empire, maybe.

Regulations would not allow for such toxic substances to be present in any tools that are used in art.

BogStandad, with a big thanks to Carson.
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KrisBLISE
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby KrisBLISE » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:40 pm

Hmmm, some interesting new things to learn. I do like your post cjeje, especially the ending about the love for art. it made me chuckle quite a bit.

I don't think that many people could be insultingly called "ignorant" It's true that if some people truly researched everything they said then they would be sure to get things right when placed in statement. but if you always wanted to make sure to say things right you would be doing nothing but research for the majority of your life and many do not have time to do that.

I like the term "mis-informed" as I know that most of my knowledge comes from two of the colleges that I've attended - though teachers are often full of flaws themselves. I wasn't sure if pencils are still made of led but know back in the day it was an issue. Perhaps it was just a myth... . Paints too are strictly chosen by our schools and we are unable to use the expensive brands within our school as the teachers could get in a lot of trouble (making us use them) I'm not sure what paint does to people as I use it very little and have as much interest in it as it is used on my behalf. But maybe to some people it does give them a sort of high... I know for many people who are not even artists say that glue and markers do give them a sensation that is very similar. To me, things like that just give me a headache. Perhaps there is a different terminology that doctors use for the feeling and medical conditions in which our utensils take their tolls on us. I'm not a professional so it would be nice to here from those of you who are more knowledgeable of this case as the topic has arisen.

This does make a fun topic.
"Encouraging Artists to do what they Love."
B.L.I.S.E. (Beyond Lines; Into Secret Emotions)
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BogStandad
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby BogStandad » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:41 am

Hi KrisBLISE,

Some solvents used in the painting process will produce intoxicating effects as they are made from petrol chemicals and marker pens are industrial alcohol based so will also do the same if they are abused but in many instances they will also produce headaches. I would prefer not to advertise this because people do abuse such things especially young people.

These solvents are avoided if at all possible by most businesses because they are a liable and can be dangerous. When used it is under strict guidelines except for a small few who will cut corners if they can, risking danger and liability.

Cheap art goods made in under developed parts of the world have been known to contain undesirable toxic chemicals such as led in a few cases but not often because of importing regulations.

It has been speculated by historians that some painters may have died premature deaths because of the toxic chemicals used as pigments in the paint preparations and artists had to make their own paints until the recent history of the industrial revolution.

I hope this helps to clarify, BogStandad.
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Carson Collins
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Carson Collins » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:29 am

To suggest that chemicals found in paint or glue (or solvents) and not intended for human consumption are in the same class as drugs which without exception have been tested for toxicity when taken internally in both animals and humans and approved by the FDA (US Food and Drug Administration) is ridiculous. :idea:

Further, neither LSD nor marijuana is a "chemical drug". LSD is produced by ergot, a black mold that grows on wheat in nature, and marijuana is a plant. :mrgreen: :oops:
cjeje10
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby cjeje10 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:13 am

well i'm very sorry TO BE CALLED IGNORANT, after having spent most of younger life under psychatrists and phycologists, telling me i am a dangerous paraniod. If i had listened to them i would be in a permanent hospital now, as for the use of glue and paint i still have friends who use these substances to buzz on, so maybe i am mis-informed or maybe someone who is an organical doctor is better informed?. I thought the point of this discussion was the relationship between mentall illness and art!!. Am i still ignorant doctor bio. a reasonable discussion is somewhere everyone is free to air their thoughts and feelings about this subject. To be called ignorant by some one who clearly is only interested in showing the rest of us their own ignorance is a compliment so thanks. I believe now as i did when i was younger that the misunderstanding between people is what leads to ignorance. To believe that your opinion is correct would mean that i am still "DANGEROUSLY MIS-INFORMED", but to respect your opinion as just that"your opinion" makes this discussion pratical and helpful to other people. Maybe you should spend a day in an institute with mentally challenged people as to have a first hand perception of this illness. Many artists freely use drugs to enhance their own perceptions on reality thus giving them the oportunity to release the power of their imagination. This is not something that i advocate but i can understand. From Lord Byron who often used opium to Bob Marley who used marijuana, the effects of paint and glue and lead based products( and you are correct pencils contain more graphite than lead)are an influence on the functions of the brain. but common sense and first hand knowledge laeve myself and many others included in this discussion definately better informed than yourself dr carson. maybe you should read Dr Ludwig Lowenstein, and then next time you post a reply calling me ingnorant and dangerously mis-informed you will not lose track of the topic or leave me beleiving that some-one such as yourself is so very small minded and abusive to complete strangers. As you can see i still have trace dyslexia, i try hard to overcome my problems without drugs and i have succeded on my own because of my self belief, but as a person open to education on all levels maybe your opinions are better left in your own mind where the cant hurt anyone. I apologise to anyone who find this reply offensive but i cannot permit somebody who doesn't know me to be this stupid. Next time he will tell me that atoms and neutrons are not mathematically divided as to be the same dimensions as those which we find make up uor own anatomy and our universe.This was calculated 3000 years ago in greece. I don't claim to be a genius or aything other than what i see in the mirror every day, but to accept that my brain functions diferently to other people drives me to be better inside. This in turn is then felt by people aruond me. Or is better to offer a wrong opinion and be corrected than to have no opinion and call people ignorant? Maybe other people here could help our kind friend overcome his fear of the unknown and then we can all move forward. Sorry for being human. Jaimie :mrgreen: :oops: :oops: :shock:
cjeje10
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby cjeje10 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:51 am

maybe you are right dr carson, in a world where people are ready to judge and label others, silence is golden. If i didn't have my art form a lot of people wuold never know how ifeel. I am thankful for this as i have lived to long in the dark. As a physchiatrist you would understand this. i am not ignorant and do not believe my thoughts to be the truth.

I am amazed that an educated man as you clearly are should speak in such a way, but i am more disappionted that these comments could be atributed to you, so yeah maybe ignorance is bliss, but to offer a correction of thinking is always more helpful than labelling people. These are my last comments here as all my life people would rather bully their way in than to actually offer guidance down the right path. i find it hard to believe that you are really who you say. did you not ever learn the damage that can be done with words....................... i was better of living in the darkness.


good bye
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Gary Dee
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby Gary Dee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 am

Carson Collins wrote:completely ignorant but also dangerously misinformed about the subject being discussed.


cjeje10,
If you will re-read Carson's statement, he plainly said "ignorant of the subject discussed", not completely ignorant!

I'm afraid you may have over reacted a bit. :wink:
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cjeje10
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Re: Mental illness - Connection?

Postby cjeje10 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:19 am

maybe, i dont presume to be more than i am a long road i travelled to bring myself here and i read his other statemsnts so this was insulting to me. i always thought that better educated people could help. as for being mis informed on the subject the papers i have here then are also wrong sorry still have trouble sometimes maybe i should take the drugs now after 25 years. or trust myself. sorry carson bye.

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