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30day artist, please feel to go wild of critizing!

Post your art here! Discussion and critiques of user-submitted artwork.
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bloodjelly
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Postby bloodjelly » Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:52 pm

Alright you guys - this is an interesting discussion, but it's starting to have less and less to do with chinyew's original post and more and more to do with personal attacks, which aren't beneficial to anyone or this community.

So...instead of me playing thought police and telling who to say what and when and to whom (which happens enough in this country these days) I will just say:

Hamlet, and everyone else, please try to be courteous to people's feelings and beliefs, and respect them. RDW and Sunny - sorry that you were offended, but I personally wouldn't want to be part of a community that didn't allow people to speak their minds, even if the way they do it is offensive at times. Hopefully Hamlet will respect your opinions on future posts.

As for this thread, if you want to keep posting, stick to the topic, or something productive and related to the topic at the very least. Now back to your regularly scheduled forum...
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mtv65
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back to the theme (-s)

Postby mtv65 » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:39 pm

So back to the themes

SO what are other people's thought on the 30days challenge which we were told about?

Or any kind of art "boot camp" or taking time off to just concentrate on one's art? Is it productive?

Would you consider doing something similar to the 30daychallenge?

What are your thoughts on being an artist?
Is it a special gift only for the few or something in everyone? Or something in between? Where on that big divide do you think the answer lies? (Let's just agree that there is no true answer but lots of opinions and just state those opinions and not define each other as artists or not)

Is there a big difference between us hobbyists doing it on our spare time (LOL often finally finding time and energhy after kicking the kids out of the nest) and the more conventional artists who has studied art and/or dedicated his or her carriere or life to it from the start?

Is art all about intent and effect? How important are skills or talent?

Is it typical for real art/artists not to be recognized or understood or appreciated in the start or only after a long time - maybe only after the artist is dead like some say?

To what degree can real art be commercialized and still be real art? To what degree is commercialized art real art? (my definition: commercial art= art made to be easily sold) We all have to eat and pay the bills or materials.

Feel free to add any subthemes I might have forgotten.

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Life begins at 40, Right? At least my life as an artist did.
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oleandervyce
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Re: back to the theme (-s)

Postby oleandervyce » Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:55 am

Heh, this has been an interesting discussion...

In response to both the original pose and mtv65, I don't know exactly where I stand on the 30 day artist thing. I think it's certainly a learning experience, and an interesting way of introducing one into the "art world", if you can call it that.

However, I'm not so sure I like the idea of a 30 day program making a cookie-cutter artist. But hey, who am I to judge? I've never done it before, so of course I'm going to be a bit skeptical. If chinyew wants to do it, I say go for it. Hell, why not?

As for hobbyists and conventional artists, of course they're different. It doesn't mean that one is better than the other, however. Studying art does not necessarily hold you above some one who's never even cracked open an art history text book. IMO it's simply about the time and effort you put into your work.

mtv65 wrote:To what degree can real art be commercialized and still be real art? To what degree is commercialized art real art? (my definition: commercial art= art made to be easily sold) We all have to eat and pay the bills or materials.


Just because it's commercial doesn't mean it isn't "real art". If you take a look at most video games and CG/concept work, there are some incredible illustrations and designs. And I suppose we can call video game art commercial art considering it appeals to a wide audience.

...I'm not sure how much of my post made sense, but I haven't gotten much sleep in the past few days, hehe. :P
"I am a kind of paranoiac in reverse--I suspect people of plotting to make me happy." - J.D. Salinger
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RDW
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to the point

Postby RDW » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:05 pm

yes, yes, the point is the thing... back to the point.

It seems to me that the debate is over what makes an artist?

Let's start by defining "artist."

From dictionary.com

[b]art
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mtv65
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Postby mtv65 » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:34 pm

who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value,


Good one :D

I'm an artist Jippiii. I created work that some found of aestetic value :D


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mommieslilangels3
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Let's all chill out...

Postby mommieslilangels3 » Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:29 pm

Okay, so I didn't have time, nor the patience to read all of the posts on this topic, but I can tell you what I think about artists. I think everyone is an artist. Construction workers (it takes hard work and dedication), poets (words are just as much art as anything else), race car drivers (not everyone can drive a car like they can, it takes skill and art in that subject) and so on. It's a matter of what your tallented in. There is a difference between an artist and professional artists, though. You may have a gift for art, but you might not pursue it in a career. You are still a gifted artist, though. If you decide to pursue it, and become known, then you are a professional. Everyone is an artist, everyone is exceptionally good at something, and some have it in their gene to become something really great. I think I have it, and I think everyone here has the gift, because so far from what I've seen you guys are all pretty tallented, even if your skills aren't fully honed in yet (such as mine). So lets not compare who is an artist, and who isn't. If you love it, want to nurture it (whether or not you want to go professional) and appreciate other art then you are an artist.
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mtv65
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artists

Postby mtv65 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:06 am

I really love how you express it. It makes so much sense the way you divide it into artists and professional artists. Much better terms than real artists which sort of suggests that some are "fake" or something.

And like you said, there are so many talented people around here whether theire
skills aren't fully honed in
or not. I find new exciting works every day when I log into the gallery. LOL it's like having a big gallery just in my living room.

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Life begins at 40, Right? At least my life as an artist did.
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Carson Collins
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Postby Carson Collins » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:28 am

We might further make a distinction among "professional" artists according to motive: Those who make art in order to make money, and those who make art for the sake of making art, and are fortunate enough, by chance, to make money at it.

Of course one wouldn't want to participate in a criticism the function of which would be to award brownie points for good intentions. Art that fails to heal or awaken us fails utterly, regardless of what the intention of the artist may have been.

Readers of this thread might also be interested in: [url=http://www.artcritical.com/DavidCohen/CollinsCohen_exchange.htm]"A Useless, Evil Game"
An Exchange between Carson C.T. Collins and David Cohen on Intentionality[/url] in the September 2003 issue of Art Critical.
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mtv65
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and one might further

Postby mtv65 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:07 am

We might further make a distinction among "professional" artists according to motive: Those who make art in order to make money, and those who make art for the sake of making art, and are fortunate enough, by chance, to make money at it.


Good one.

And one might further make a distinction between those that make art solely for the purpose of making money and those that among themes they work on choose to prioritize those that sell better some times because let's face it being a starving artist do not feed and clothe kids or pay for classes and new canvases.

To be honest I've turned into a somewhat cynic. I do not at present have the time or the economy to attend a proper art school, I sort of try to learn mainly by myself with some classes now and then. LOL probably would not get admitted either due to less than brilliant talents and skills.

I have to learn and practice all the basics in oil and acrylics painting meaning that even though I paint what I do like and feel like painting, most of my work could be considered learning projects and the canvases and canvas papers pile up. So, yes, I'm cynical enough to know and use the fact that some motifs are easier to sell. And if they sell and give the buyer aesthetic enjoyment then I as an amateur artist have reached an important goal, even if I myself tend to like some of my other work more. The same goes for commissioned work. I can totally understand artists having to do that a bit while they wait to be discovered properly.

Sorry if that offends someone, but I believe one has to a certain degree be a cynic and be commercialized in thought, not as much while painting but at least while trying to get the art exhibitioned and sold.

Some time during the coming week I'm going to exchange some of my earlier work on display in an Alpine center nearby. There are also 2 other landscape artists showing there; one with good skills and lots of detail, and another with skills and talent. I naturally do not want to compete either for the same visitors or on the same skills. So naturally I choose a bit cynically. I know that landscapes probably is of more interest to the visitors than abstracts, so I manly pick those, but I choose some that stand out together with those other artist's works. For example two I've made on hexagonal canvases.

So do the rest of you think that becoming a bit cynical is necessary or something one should try to avoid becoming or being an artist?

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Life begins at 40, Right? At least my life as an artist did.
mommieslilangels3
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Postby mommieslilangels3 » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:24 am

[quote="hamlet279"]We might further make a distinction among "professional" artists according to motive: Those who make art in order to make money, and those who make art for the sake of making art, and are fortunate enough, by chance, to make money at it.

Well, I do consider people who do art just to make money artists. It's fine making art just for money, because, let's face it...we all need some kind of income. But I think an artist at heart, who fully appreciates art and goes into work saying, "I love what I do," will enjoy their art so much more and find it more enriching, rather than someone saying, "I love the money I make."

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